version 4 and version 5 are differnt in the phase 1/2 riff. head ports are redesigned, cams are milder, but electrionics are more advanced. some things changed on it - (redesign in all castings (head/block/transmission shell), make it a more modern day production animal (mechanically). just as GDB A/B are very differnt than GDB E/F, its a natural progression thing.
in summary:
ej20g and K are very similar dyna and response. arguably preferable to the ej207 gc8's, arguably not.
G and K differ in the way that a B18C1 and b18C5 differ. both can stand up to the same stress numbers, but one does a more outstanding job at it. both c1 and c5 can rev to 9K, and kick in vtec , but the C5 does it with more output because its simply more efficient. better head ports, bigger valves, titaninum stuff for crazy response attack, lightweight pistons to attack rpms more rapidly, thats the state of the tune. the K is much more sophisticated in a NA tune fashion than the g is. both at 1.5 bar will make you go crazy, the K will just carry more power under the curve getting there.
subaru went from 8.5:1 compression and 280ps to 8:1 compression and 280 ps without changing much. the turbines are changed for more response and torque under the curve, but the ultimate output is the same. in this sense, its the turbine that makes up for the lack of compresssion, but it can be further digressed in a more explicit mannter.
i.e. my car;
Ej20G sti RA car, ran 8.5:1 sti ver2 ra V-limited motor, then a 9:1 ej20H normal twin turbo legacy longmotor, and now is rockin a EJ20K ver3 sti- ra V-limited motor.
same turbine, same ecu, same exhaust setup, same intercooler setup.
to compare, the G ra motor and the H legacy motor drive almost identical. the .5 extra compression of the legacy has noticable improved off throttle response in the 10-20% throttle range. spool off throttle is advanced too, the compression reduces response time.
__________________
the sti - RA motors had the same valves, springs, heads, cams, as the normal WRX ej20G's, but the differance of lighter weight (probbaly 15g or so lighter) pistons, and mechanically activated valvetrain compared to the hydrolic, but performance is negligable. the only differance is a slight accelleration in rotating mas movement, and more precise actulation of airflow at very high rpms - 7,500 rpm ++ where the turbine has already dropped out of ideal zone to be at (meaning you shouild have shifted already).
before you go hunting and asking me -"where can i get an RA", please note.
*ej20g- only "STi-RA" cars had mechanical valvetrain. i believe 800 total were made. rare even in japan.
*wrx ra is not the same.
*there is no point in wasting the extra money to have this particular setup. if you are bench racing, just buy the sticker and pretend like you spent 2x the money that you did.
*EJ20K is considerably better than the ver2 sti-ra head, and so you are just being silly by demanding the older version thats not as good.
so we move on to the EJ20K, as the wrx normal G and wrx-sti-ra G are basically the same thing with the H legacy being a very slight change (but preffered by me and arguably faster lap time).
the Ej20K in my car currently is paired exactally like all the previous EJ20's. Ej20G computer, intake manifold, side entry td05 turbine, stock exhaust, same catless downpipe, same boost map setting, everything. same gearbox, same car, same monkey behind the wheel.
my initial critizim before i drove it was if the drop in compression to 8:1 + the aggresive high rpm side vavetrain and port setup would make it a dog with the bigger, laggier td05. I was wrong.
to think, a 9:1 compression ej20K with flattop short skirts would be a mad setup...
the 8:1 lacks to the 9:! h in one area only. 10-20% throttle zone, the response is a little further away. it makes up in airflow completely from 20-25%, and as the rpms climb, it sucks in a lot more air.
why?
cams. valves, heads all more optimized and refined for air consumption.
it has a floaty feeling of surge to it:
rotating mass is 25g lighter in pistons, valvetrain components are lighter as well
the next progression in this setup witll be 9:1 compression with wrc short skirt flat tops and 2134cc stroker kit...
Wednesday, May 30, 2007
Thursday, May 03, 2007
Ej20G varients.
to address the first thing people think of when EJ20G comes to mind;
Closed deck vs open deck.
I'm here to publicly state that closed deck is stupid. Sorry mike shields fanboys, sorry mike shields. closed deck is pointless. an open deck Ej20 can do 60 psi before the cylinder walls crack. Everyone knows that the person behind the closed deck theory has a EJ20g in his car, I know that he runs a stock ecu and dosn't go over stock 1 bar of boost. Car vs car, the WRX-RA we put together in 16 hours would beat his closed deck SPD special in a drag race.
closed deck has no advantage unless you are going over 600 AWHP. if you dont have a GT40R on your workbench, dont even think about debating with me that open deck is better than closed.
this being stated, lets go on to outline the differnt varients of EJ20g
All ej20G's have the same Forged crankshaft, Forged connecting rods, cylinderheads, Valves, Cams, exhaust manifold, up pipe, downpipe, throttlebody, fuel injectors and complete electrical system (ABS cars have abs added in, power windows, etc)
Ej20G wagons had td04 turbines. Ej20g wagon Sti-s had TD05-16g turbines
all wrx sedans had Td05-16g's. same turbine on sti, sti- ra, wrx-ra. all identical
the WRX-RA and Sti-RA have a 5th injector plumbed in the centre of the intake manifold. it dosnt do anything. it dosnt even work
Sti ej20g motors have a painted red intake manifold. only differance is the paint. sti-RA's have a non-painted manifold with a 5th injector
supposedly the STi engine ej20G and Sti-ra have forged pistons. I have yet to have a need to remove pistons to weight them, we'll verify this eventually sometime by comparing a normal wrx and sti piston
valvetrain on all EJ20G's with exception of the rare Sti-RA only are HLA under bucket. all cams are same duration and profile. only the sti-ra has mechanical valvetrain- little liter disc shims under the buckets.
Besides for these minor changes, the only major differance between any varient of ej20G (assuming sedan td05 turbine) is really the ECU. the ECU is everything in these cars, if you plug a sti-RA ecu into a normal WRX ej20g....... you get STi-RA performance. the td05 turbine is out of efficiency range by 7300rpm at best, HLA's will spin to 8500 before floating - you do the math. usually a shift is best performed by the time 7k rolls around
Closed deck vs open deck.
I'm here to publicly state that closed deck is stupid. Sorry mike shields fanboys, sorry mike shields. closed deck is pointless. an open deck Ej20 can do 60 psi before the cylinder walls crack. Everyone knows that the person behind the closed deck theory has a EJ20g in his car, I know that he runs a stock ecu and dosn't go over stock 1 bar of boost. Car vs car, the WRX-RA we put together in 16 hours would beat his closed deck SPD special in a drag race.
closed deck has no advantage unless you are going over 600 AWHP. if you dont have a GT40R on your workbench, dont even think about debating with me that open deck is better than closed.
this being stated, lets go on to outline the differnt varients of EJ20g
All ej20G's have the same Forged crankshaft, Forged connecting rods, cylinderheads, Valves, Cams, exhaust manifold, up pipe, downpipe, throttlebody, fuel injectors and complete electrical system (ABS cars have abs added in, power windows, etc)
Ej20G wagons had td04 turbines. Ej20g wagon Sti-s had TD05-16g turbines
all wrx sedans had Td05-16g's. same turbine on sti, sti- ra, wrx-ra. all identical
the WRX-RA and Sti-RA have a 5th injector plumbed in the centre of the intake manifold. it dosnt do anything. it dosnt even work
Sti ej20g motors have a painted red intake manifold. only differance is the paint. sti-RA's have a non-painted manifold with a 5th injector
supposedly the STi engine ej20G and Sti-ra have forged pistons. I have yet to have a need to remove pistons to weight them, we'll verify this eventually sometime by comparing a normal wrx and sti piston
valvetrain on all EJ20G's with exception of the rare Sti-RA only are HLA under bucket. all cams are same duration and profile. only the sti-ra has mechanical valvetrain- little liter disc shims under the buckets.
Besides for these minor changes, the only major differance between any varient of ej20G (assuming sedan td05 turbine) is really the ECU. the ECU is everything in these cars, if you plug a sti-RA ecu into a normal WRX ej20g....... you get STi-RA performance. the td05 turbine is out of efficiency range by 7300rpm at best, HLA's will spin to 8500 before floating - you do the math. usually a shift is best performed by the time 7k rolls around
Monday, April 16, 2007
ej20 whatnots
my notes on ej20 wrx transplants.-
ej257 (usdm 2.5L sti). long-block is good to 530 awhp, probably would live all day at 400 chp. i dont like it because it dosnt rev high and isn't constructed to the level of the JDM 2.0L blocks. heads are crappier too. if you want to build your own torque beasty, just get the short-block ($1400 new) and throw some 2.0 l heads on it and make custom frankenstein. works very well. kinda pricey for me
USDM ej205. i wouldn't bother with it, but if you goal is 300 chp and a max usable power rpm of 6500 or so, its easy to find for cheap. wiring is a bizzle, but the parts are plentiful. full motor conversion ranges from $1500 on the dirt to $4K installed. Toys are always extra, so you probably looking at an up pipe and a full turbo back exhaust with a upgraded ECU (accesport,ecutek etc). 300 chp is be easy with stock ecu td04, td04 and IC. its not bad, but JDM is better. the EJ205 is hampered with stupid things like TGV, low compression, and a terrible gearbox.
JDM EJ207 (v7/8/9). the best thing money can buy. but it costs alot of money to buy. power is all in the heads, open deck (technically semi-closed) but it'll handle 30 psi ++ no problem. problem is the price tag. whole drivetrain will cost you about 8K, just motor a nasty $4500 or so. Varients like Spec-C, RA are pricy. very very good though. with the proper setup you can make 400 AWHP daily on a stock motor. the heads are where the power is. Also it benefits from interchangability for sensors with usdm wrx ej205.
- subaru dosnt have a problem with open deck motor breaking, the idiots in the US just tune it bad and crack piston ring-lands. even a EJ205 is good for a reasonably reliable 400 chp if tuned very well on a bigger turbine. longevity is a different story.
JDM ej207 (v5/6) almost a gdb 7/8 motor, but with smaller valves than v8 and no AVCS heads. obviously a good motor, but pretty expensive. $2500 or so just for the motor, $3200+ for a sti-RA engine only. $6500-7500 for the front clip. spendy and not good deal in my opion. obviously the sti-RA models will be faster than hell. trick stuff like sodium filled valves. my buddy has one in his 98, its not any faster than my 95 ej20G sti-RA. Benefits? revised phase 2 block design (arguably better but perhaps not that important). ECUtek reflashable. dissadvantages: cost, does not pass emissions obd2, spare parts are EXPENSIVE and hard to find, not that significant performance advantage over ej20K- cams are actually less aggressive.
EJ20K. v3/4. a good deal. clip will cost you 4.5-5.5kK with everything complete , the plane jane WRX is a better deal than the STi. wrx comes with a VF22 turbine, STi has a faster spooling but smaller vf23. pick up the normal WRX and give it an exhaust, then go walk sti's all day... u can run high 11's with a VF22. no joke.
Advantages of ej20K: pistons are light. 375g vs 398g for ej207 gdb, titanium valves, aggressive cams. waste spark much more reliable than ej20g cop, revised metal waterbox, straight entry turbine deign, bigger intercooler (and ej20k+ square big TMIC fitament possibility)
Downsides: spare MAF and ignitor is rather hard to find.
EJ20G. the OG of the crew. 1992-1995, they are all the same. Td04 and Td05 turbines flow more CFM's than any of the other GC8 OEM turbines, older design could use a revamp (aka centre baller bearing conversion like EVO td05). if you want to be able to brag that you have a closed deck, EJ20G is the only closed deck. EJ20g also has the most spare parts support of any of the GC8 drivelines. Swapstar productions stocks all standard replacement parts, all sensors, coilpacks, ignitors, maf's. You will be hard pressed to find replacement spares for all other JDM GC8 drivelines stateside. there are "240ps", "260ps", and "275ps". Same size valves from EJ20g to GDB ver7 early. all EJ20G motor internals are identical. Plane jane WRX and WRX sti and WRX sti-RA will all make the same power on the same ecu. the differance is the ECU and turbine, but theres always power FC's to take care of ecu side and turbine upgrades are easy. easily the best bang for the buck, any WRX EJ20G will rev to 8K all day and do 300 crank on 91 octane. my personal one in bone stock setup did 238 awhp on 91 octane. stock turbine, stock ecu, stock intercooler, stock boost, and an aftermarket exhaust. the Td04 small turbine will spool quite a bit faster, so if you're building an autoX monster, or togue pass king car, you might want to do that instead. TD04 will do 300 CHP as well, there are lots of usdm WRX's as thus. High end power or lower end power, you pick.
any turbine and exhaust from ANY ej motor is compatible. you can fit a twin scroll on a EJ20G, or a TD05 single scroll setup on a GDB EJ207 2005. up pipe, downpipe, header, its all compatible.
ej257 (usdm 2.5L sti). long-block is good to 530 awhp, probably would live all day at 400 chp. i dont like it because it dosnt rev high and isn't constructed to the level of the JDM 2.0L blocks. heads are crappier too. if you want to build your own torque beasty, just get the short-block ($1400 new) and throw some 2.0 l heads on it and make custom frankenstein. works very well. kinda pricey for me
USDM ej205. i wouldn't bother with it, but if you goal is 300 chp and a max usable power rpm of 6500 or so, its easy to find for cheap. wiring is a bizzle, but the parts are plentiful. full motor conversion ranges from $1500 on the dirt to $4K installed. Toys are always extra, so you probably looking at an up pipe and a full turbo back exhaust with a upgraded ECU (accesport,ecutek etc). 300 chp is be easy with stock ecu td04, td04 and IC. its not bad, but JDM is better. the EJ205 is hampered with stupid things like TGV, low compression, and a terrible gearbox.
JDM EJ207 (v7/8/9). the best thing money can buy. but it costs alot of money to buy. power is all in the heads, open deck (technically semi-closed) but it'll handle 30 psi ++ no problem. problem is the price tag. whole drivetrain will cost you about 8K, just motor a nasty $4500 or so. Varients like Spec-C, RA are pricy. very very good though. with the proper setup you can make 400 AWHP daily on a stock motor. the heads are where the power is. Also it benefits from interchangability for sensors with usdm wrx ej205.
- subaru dosnt have a problem with open deck motor breaking, the idiots in the US just tune it bad and crack piston ring-lands. even a EJ205 is good for a reasonably reliable 400 chp if tuned very well on a bigger turbine. longevity is a different story.
JDM ej207 (v5/6) almost a gdb 7/8 motor, but with smaller valves than v8 and no AVCS heads. obviously a good motor, but pretty expensive. $2500 or so just for the motor, $3200+ for a sti-RA engine only. $6500-7500 for the front clip. spendy and not good deal in my opion. obviously the sti-RA models will be faster than hell. trick stuff like sodium filled valves. my buddy has one in his 98, its not any faster than my 95 ej20G sti-RA. Benefits? revised phase 2 block design (arguably better but perhaps not that important). ECUtek reflashable. dissadvantages: cost, does not pass emissions obd2, spare parts are EXPENSIVE and hard to find, not that significant performance advantage over ej20K- cams are actually less aggressive.
EJ20K. v3/4. a good deal. clip will cost you 4.5-5.5kK with everything complete , the plane jane WRX is a better deal than the STi. wrx comes with a VF22 turbine, STi has a faster spooling but smaller vf23. pick up the normal WRX and give it an exhaust, then go walk sti's all day... u can run high 11's with a VF22. no joke.
Advantages of ej20K: pistons are light. 375g vs 398g for ej207 gdb, titanium valves, aggressive cams. waste spark much more reliable than ej20g cop, revised metal waterbox, straight entry turbine deign, bigger intercooler (and ej20k+ square big TMIC fitament possibility)
Downsides: spare MAF and ignitor is rather hard to find.
EJ20G. the OG of the crew. 1992-1995, they are all the same. Td04 and Td05 turbines flow more CFM's than any of the other GC8 OEM turbines, older design could use a revamp (aka centre baller bearing conversion like EVO td05). if you want to be able to brag that you have a closed deck, EJ20G is the only closed deck. EJ20g also has the most spare parts support of any of the GC8 drivelines. Swapstar productions stocks all standard replacement parts, all sensors, coilpacks, ignitors, maf's. You will be hard pressed to find replacement spares for all other JDM GC8 drivelines stateside. there are "240ps", "260ps", and "275ps". Same size valves from EJ20g to GDB ver7 early. all EJ20G motor internals are identical. Plane jane WRX and WRX sti and WRX sti-RA will all make the same power on the same ecu. the differance is the ECU and turbine, but theres always power FC's to take care of ecu side and turbine upgrades are easy. easily the best bang for the buck, any WRX EJ20G will rev to 8K all day and do 300 crank on 91 octane. my personal one in bone stock setup did 238 awhp on 91 octane. stock turbine, stock ecu, stock intercooler, stock boost, and an aftermarket exhaust. the Td04 small turbine will spool quite a bit faster, so if you're building an autoX monster, or togue pass king car, you might want to do that instead. TD04 will do 300 CHP as well, there are lots of usdm WRX's as thus. High end power or lower end power, you pick.
any turbine and exhaust from ANY ej motor is compatible. you can fit a twin scroll on a EJ20G, or a TD05 single scroll setup on a GDB EJ207 2005. up pipe, downpipe, header, its all compatible.
Tuesday, April 10, 2007
wiring up a RHD driveline in a LHD car- easiest way.....
if you break it down, there are several harness bundles on a JDM wrx ej20g;
ECU/bulkhead- fills the entire interior
engine bay fusebox
fan harness - front of car
dash harness (attached to your dash)
body rear harness - goes to Fuel pump, tails, signals.
ECU bulkhead connects directly to engine harness, BUT needs to send signal to dash, and get signal from imputs - clutch pedal, etc
picture 2 identical cars- one is LHD and one is rhd. the ecu's will be on reverse sides, the steering column on reverse sides. now picture what you would need to do to make your NA 2.5rs the same car but just RHd... assuming engine and everything stays the same, and the mechanical parts were already bolted in.....
it would just be re-routing the wiring right?
so lets assume the same thing. all ej20g is in the engine bay, the wiring is all hooked up. you have to have the ecu and the steering stuff switch sides (smart re-routing and extending of some wires). then you need to feed the dash stuff - you'll have to do a bit of splicing there bc EJ20G and 2.5rs are a couple generations apart.
then feed the rear lights and fuel pump etc. JDM wrx is 1 plug with 26 wires, usdm has 3 plugs with about the same number of wires. easy test light will do it-
see my logic? its FAST.
if you break it down, there are several harness bundles on a JDM wrx ej20g;
ECU/bulkhead- fills the entire interior
engine bay fusebox
fan harness - front of car
dash harness (attached to your dash)
body rear harness - goes to Fuel pump, tails, signals.
ECU bulkhead connects directly to engine harness, BUT needs to send signal to dash, and get signal from imputs - clutch pedal, etc
picture 2 identical cars- one is LHD and one is rhd. the ecu's will be on reverse sides, the steering column on reverse sides. now picture what you would need to do to make your NA 2.5rs the same car but just RHd... assuming engine and everything stays the same, and the mechanical parts were already bolted in.....
it would just be re-routing the wiring right?
so lets assume the same thing. all ej20g is in the engine bay, the wiring is all hooked up. you have to have the ecu and the steering stuff switch sides (smart re-routing and extending of some wires). then you need to feed the dash stuff - you'll have to do a bit of splicing there bc EJ20G and 2.5rs are a couple generations apart.
then feed the rear lights and fuel pump etc. JDM wrx is 1 plug with 26 wires, usdm has 3 plugs with about the same number of wires. easy test light will do it-
see my logic? its FAST.
Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Saturday, February 03, 2007
r180 rear end conversion
okay. so I got myself a christmas present (and a hell of a conversion to do on christmas eve).
4 corners worth of brembos with hubs and full R180 rear diff conversion parts. (thank you fineline imports!)
key things to consider:
$$$$$$$
to do the Front brembo convesion you need to:
1. have wheels to clear the big bad mofo's. USDM Sti bbs is popular, so is Sti JDM/UK 17's.
2. Clear your rear struts with the big tires and offsets that the brake clearance requires - on a GC8 with JIC coilovers (more tire clearance than a stock strut style), this ment a 4mm spacer and camber adjuster bolts to make camber ~-.75 deg in the rear. otherwise you rub tire against coilover/shock and that is bad news.
3. if above criteria is met, then all thats left to do is to pony up the cash and grab a front set. Install, Bleed (both inside and outside bleed nipples).
- note, the bleed nipples are 11mm. WEIRD.
REAR brembo conversion $$$$$$$ X 2!~!
stupid, but i had to do it :P
theres 4 routes to take here.
#1 $$$$$$$ X 1.0
and
#2 $$$$$$$ X 2.0
AND
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 $$$$$$$ X 1.5 :
- keeping R160 rear hubs is the premise
Buy rear brembo calipers. Buy rear rotors to fit the brembo brakes:
A: buy Godspeed's adapter kit ~$600: you get 2 caliper bracket adapter brackets (CNC machined id assume) and a Rotor insert that you put inside the stock rear Brembo rotor to make the E-brake inner diameter go from 190mm->170mm (unless you dont want an e-brake.
Another option commonly seen is a rear rotor that has a 170mm e-brake but Big diameter rotor to fit the caliper.
all solutions to doing this and keeping the R160 rear hubs is about $600 or so.
r180 hub backing plate vs R160 caliper. NOT compatible, but with an adapter you can put a R180 brake on a R160 hub. use logic.... visualize!
[img]http://static.flickr.com/43/77110326_3d15c97fd6_b.jpg[/img]
$ budget solution for option #1 $$$$$$$ X 1.5 : approx $1100 or so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2 $$$$$$$ X 2.0
Buy rear brembo calipers + rotors + big R180 hubs + R180 axels +R180 diff.
how to do:
1. remove rear hubs, brakes, axels, diff.
2. replace With R180 diff, R180 axels, R180 hubs, r180 brembo calipers / rotors
Keynotes:
-If you are using GDB rear diff (most will be bc gc8 r180 is RARE) you will need to swap rear diff studs as they are differnt lengths:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77108884_947fc54ce0_b.jpg[/img]
vice-grypts or double nut works the matJiK
- R180 GDB axels are longer than R180 GC8 to my understanding, but they work just proper (just drove home from the shop with my r180 rear end).
- putting axelstubs in diff and hub first before connecting makes life easier.
- R180 Diff has a differnt driveshaft than R160 (for 5mt). a GC8 5mt R180 driveshaft DOES exist. it is rare.
- R180 6mt driveshaft is obviously differnt (shorter - same length as automatic 4eat).
***notes:
R180 rear diff ive only seen in 4.44 and 3.9. unless you have a 4.44 JDM or FXT box, or a 3.9 usdm ej22t 5mt, or a usdm wrx with a 1:1 centre diff conversion, this wont really work for you. no 4.11 that i know of, or 3.54 R180 rear diff.
** im not saying it dosnt exist, it would most likely be from a nissan or somthing. (they use R180's as well)
if you have a 5mt and want to use a R180 rear diff you have 3 options:
1. source an ultra rare R180 5mt driveshaft from JDM STi version 4/5/6 RA with r180 rear diff.
2. Drill out the R180 diff flange to 4 bolt smaller diameter pattern of the R160 driveshaft. the inner rounded bit is actually identical between R180 and R160 so it fits proper (after you drill out the holes - cobalt bit and patience is recommended - took a good 30 minutes to drill 4 holes).
3. Swap big diff flange of R180 diff to a R160 diff small flange - impact gun + vice or the like.
- i choose both 2 and 1. my #1 is in the mail :
after these snarfus are overcome, life is good.
bleed, etc, etc
- Keynotes - GDB R180 rear hub is widertrack. 4mm spacer is no longer required for 225/45/17 070 to clear my rear coilover.
- this assembly is HEAVY. adds an extra 40 lbs or so to the rear end. YUK.
- Brembos are overly sexxy. you may catch yourself looking at them all the time.
__________________________________________________ ___________
bonus round.
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
and
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
---------------------------------------------------------
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
- same as #2, bute with more cash required!!!
BALLER wabits and the like.
same swap, but with 114.3 conversion from jdm V9 sti or usdm 05/06.
-requires the 5X114.3 wheels instead of 5X100. so budget for some nasty ADVAN RG's or the like and the front hub conversion to match cool..
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
- same as #1 $$$$$$$ X 1.0 but more labor required and slightly more cash:
Instead of rear brembos, fit OEM JDM Sti-RA 2 piston black "subaru" brakes with hub/axel/brake/R180 conversion. same rules apply as #2 ($$$$$$$ X 2.0), just less nasty on the budget (and harder to source).
this will mostly be done by the hardcore rally guys to fit 15" gravel wheels.
- if you want to do the brakes w/o the good stuff, then theres a good thread on the backing plate game, or you can swap in the R160 hubs from a 2006 usdm WRX.
Any questions or suggested appendages to the FAQ, please post or PM.
MOre pictures will be posted shortly!!
[b]Front[/b]
Before:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77147966_5fada1133d_b.jpg[/img]
After:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77147965_ca76415e10_b.jpg[/img]
[B]REAR[/B]
Before:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/43/76431860_9dacfded16_b.jpg[/img]
After a couple bloody knuckles: and 8 hours on christmas eve....
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77146558_3d2d9c83f2_b.jpg[/img]
Notes on drilling for driveshaft adaptation
theres no worry on that one. i was paranoid- trust me, but i talked it over with a couple ME's and they gave me the thumbs up! so i went for it.
ill snap some shots when i get a chance. it dosnt have to be perfecly in line either, there are alot of multipattern drilled brake rotors and wheel spacers that are sold by big companies that dont hvae things spaced out perfectly. as long as the spacing is correct.
if you drill through the driveshaft, theres no way you'll do it wrong.
ill post a pic if i get a chance to (dont really want to pull my driveshaft covers today but will when i get my new driveshaft in..),
but just trust me on this one for now??
the driveshaft uses 4 tiny bolts - 6mt and 5mt driveshaft and diff is same size.
some logic (I dont feel like learning or doing the math- although my kindergarden teacher said i am fully capable of it):
balance:
[this info from my discussion with engineer from DANA axels/driveshafts]
- oem 2 piece driveshaft is balanced in the front, the rear, and the diff is balanced on its own.
- oem driveshaft has middle rubber doughnut thing. that guy will eat the harmonic variances if some
- even if oem driveshaft WAS out of balance, it is built oem to roughly 2X the tensile load and vibration capacity - on a motorsports part sure we use alot, but its still got a saftety windog
- from research, subaru guys do NOT brake driveshafts or driveshaft bolts / diff flanges / driveshaft flanges.
from various RWD conversions we see that:
#1 to break: rear diff gears
#2 stepper gears on centre diff
#3 - perhaps rear axels>? Kingpin guys where are you [id say that kingpin has the best example of high PS RWD subaru]
i'm sure its possible, but i have never heard of anyone breaking a subaru driveshaft or diff flange yet-
from the looks of it the tiny 4 12mm head bolts would shear before the flange would break.
ALSO- my key point in being willing to risk this:
centre of R160 and r180 driveshafts / diffs has the same innie/outie pair. it is a perfect fit OEM in that the parts meet up perfectly (anyone whos pulled a driveshaft on a subaru will know, if you havn't you are technically a noob like my title here!)
also, the driveshaft is balanced with little stick on weights. if for some weird reason you messed up the balance on the diff flange, it would be equivilent to perhaps one of those little weights falling off. no sweat, people loose wheel weights all the time and never realize it untill they get tires mounted and balanced.
Your standard variation in manufacturing is probably more than a 8mm deep 4mm wide hole could ever be :P
4 corners worth of brembos with hubs and full R180 rear diff conversion parts. (thank you fineline imports!)
key things to consider:
$$$$$$$
to do the Front brembo convesion you need to:
1. have wheels to clear the big bad mofo's. USDM Sti bbs is popular, so is Sti JDM/UK 17's.
2. Clear your rear struts with the big tires and offsets that the brake clearance requires - on a GC8 with JIC coilovers (more tire clearance than a stock strut style), this ment a 4mm spacer and camber adjuster bolts to make camber ~-.75 deg in the rear. otherwise you rub tire against coilover/shock and that is bad news.
3. if above criteria is met, then all thats left to do is to pony up the cash and grab a front set. Install, Bleed (both inside and outside bleed nipples).
- note, the bleed nipples are 11mm. WEIRD.
REAR brembo conversion $$$$$$$ X 2!~!
stupid, but i had to do it :P
theres 4 routes to take here.
#1 $$$$$$$ X 1.0
and
#2 $$$$$$$ X 2.0
AND
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 $$$$$$$ X 1.5 :
- keeping R160 rear hubs is the premise
Buy rear brembo calipers. Buy rear rotors to fit the brembo brakes:
A: buy Godspeed's adapter kit ~$600: you get 2 caliper bracket adapter brackets (CNC machined id assume) and a Rotor insert that you put inside the stock rear Brembo rotor to make the E-brake inner diameter go from 190mm->170mm (unless you dont want an e-brake.
Another option commonly seen is a rear rotor that has a 170mm e-brake but Big diameter rotor to fit the caliper.
all solutions to doing this and keeping the R160 rear hubs is about $600 or so.
r180 hub backing plate vs R160 caliper. NOT compatible, but with an adapter you can put a R180 brake on a R160 hub. use logic.... visualize!
[img]http://static.flickr.com/43/77110326_3d15c97fd6_b.jpg[/img]
$ budget solution for option #1 $$$$$$$ X 1.5 : approx $1100 or so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2 $$$$$$$ X 2.0
Buy rear brembo calipers + rotors + big R180 hubs + R180 axels +R180 diff.
how to do:
1. remove rear hubs, brakes, axels, diff.
2. replace With R180 diff, R180 axels, R180 hubs, r180 brembo calipers / rotors
Keynotes:
-If you are using GDB rear diff (most will be bc gc8 r180 is RARE) you will need to swap rear diff studs as they are differnt lengths:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77108884_947fc54ce0_b.jpg[/img]
vice-grypts or double nut works the matJiK
- R180 GDB axels are longer than R180 GC8 to my understanding, but they work just proper (just drove home from the shop with my r180 rear end).
- putting axelstubs in diff and hub first before connecting makes life easier.
- R180 Diff has a differnt driveshaft than R160 (for 5mt). a GC8 5mt R180 driveshaft DOES exist. it is rare.
- R180 6mt driveshaft is obviously differnt (shorter - same length as automatic 4eat).
***notes:
R180 rear diff ive only seen in 4.44 and 3.9. unless you have a 4.44 JDM or FXT box, or a 3.9 usdm ej22t 5mt, or a usdm wrx with a 1:1 centre diff conversion, this wont really work for you. no 4.11 that i know of, or 3.54 R180 rear diff.
** im not saying it dosnt exist, it would most likely be from a nissan or somthing. (they use R180's as well)
if you have a 5mt and want to use a R180 rear diff you have 3 options:
1. source an ultra rare R180 5mt driveshaft from JDM STi version 4/5/6 RA with r180 rear diff.
2. Drill out the R180 diff flange to 4 bolt smaller diameter pattern of the R160 driveshaft. the inner rounded bit is actually identical between R180 and R160 so it fits proper (after you drill out the holes - cobalt bit and patience is recommended - took a good 30 minutes to drill 4 holes).
3. Swap big diff flange of R180 diff to a R160 diff small flange - impact gun + vice or the like.
- i choose both 2 and 1. my #1 is in the mail :
after these snarfus are overcome, life is good.
bleed, etc, etc
- Keynotes - GDB R180 rear hub is widertrack. 4mm spacer is no longer required for 225/45/17 070 to clear my rear coilover.
- this assembly is HEAVY. adds an extra 40 lbs or so to the rear end. YUK.
- Brembos are overly sexxy. you may catch yourself looking at them all the time.
__________________________________________________ ___________
bonus round.
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
and
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
---------------------------------------------------------
#3 $$$$$$$ X 2.25
- same as #2, bute with more cash required!!!
BALLER wabits and the like.
same swap, but with 114.3 conversion from jdm V9 sti or usdm 05/06.
-requires the 5X114.3 wheels instead of 5X100. so budget for some nasty ADVAN RG's or the like and the front hub conversion to match cool..
#4 $$$$$$$ X 1.50
- same as #1 $$$$$$$ X 1.0 but more labor required and slightly more cash:
Instead of rear brembos, fit OEM JDM Sti-RA 2 piston black "subaru" brakes with hub/axel/brake/R180 conversion. same rules apply as #2 ($$$$$$$ X 2.0), just less nasty on the budget (and harder to source).
this will mostly be done by the hardcore rally guys to fit 15" gravel wheels.
- if you want to do the brakes w/o the good stuff, then theres a good thread on the backing plate game, or you can swap in the R160 hubs from a 2006 usdm WRX.
Any questions or suggested appendages to the FAQ, please post or PM.
MOre pictures will be posted shortly!!
[b]Front[/b]
Before:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77147966_5fada1133d_b.jpg[/img]
After:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77147965_ca76415e10_b.jpg[/img]
[B]REAR[/B]
Before:
[img]http://static.flickr.com/43/76431860_9dacfded16_b.jpg[/img]
After a couple bloody knuckles: and 8 hours on christmas eve....
[img]http://static.flickr.com/41/77146558_3d2d9c83f2_b.jpg[/img]
Notes on drilling for driveshaft adaptation
theres no worry on that one. i was paranoid- trust me, but i talked it over with a couple ME's and they gave me the thumbs up! so i went for it.
ill snap some shots when i get a chance. it dosnt have to be perfecly in line either, there are alot of multipattern drilled brake rotors and wheel spacers that are sold by big companies that dont hvae things spaced out perfectly. as long as the spacing is correct.
if you drill through the driveshaft, theres no way you'll do it wrong.
ill post a pic if i get a chance to (dont really want to pull my driveshaft covers today but will when i get my new driveshaft in..),
but just trust me on this one for now??
the driveshaft uses 4 tiny bolts - 6mt and 5mt driveshaft and diff is same size.
some logic (I dont feel like learning or doing the math- although my kindergarden teacher said i am fully capable of it):
balance:
[this info from my discussion with engineer from DANA axels/driveshafts]
- oem 2 piece driveshaft is balanced in the front, the rear, and the diff is balanced on its own.
- oem driveshaft has middle rubber doughnut thing. that guy will eat the harmonic variances if some
- even if oem driveshaft WAS out of balance, it is built oem to roughly 2X the tensile load and vibration capacity - on a motorsports part sure we use alot, but its still got a saftety windog
- from research, subaru guys do NOT brake driveshafts or driveshaft bolts / diff flanges / driveshaft flanges.
from various RWD conversions we see that:
#1 to break: rear diff gears
#2 stepper gears on centre diff
#3 - perhaps rear axels>? Kingpin guys where are you [id say that kingpin has the best example of high PS RWD subaru]
i'm sure its possible, but i have never heard of anyone breaking a subaru driveshaft or diff flange yet-
from the looks of it the tiny 4 12mm head bolts would shear before the flange would break.
ALSO- my key point in being willing to risk this:
centre of R160 and r180 driveshafts / diffs has the same innie/outie pair. it is a perfect fit OEM in that the parts meet up perfectly (anyone whos pulled a driveshaft on a subaru will know, if you havn't you are technically a noob like my title here!)
also, the driveshaft is balanced with little stick on weights. if for some weird reason you messed up the balance on the diff flange, it would be equivilent to perhaps one of those little weights falling off. no sweat, people loose wheel weights all the time and never realize it untill they get tires mounted and balanced.
Your standard variation in manufacturing is probably more than a 8mm deep 4mm wide hole could ever be :P
Tuesday, January 16, 2007
ej25 swap into L SOHC version
Arg! I have done the swap. I have removed a 1.8l from my 95 OBDI L and installed a SOHC 2.5l from a 2001 (OBDII) car.
It depends... It will run perfectly fine off the 1.8 ECU, it will run rich though. if you want it act 100% like a 2.5 RS then change the harness and ECU Etc.
I did it cause my 1.8l had so many oil leaks i was sick of chasing down and wanted more power.
2.5 bolts right into the mounts and trans, i used a stock 2.5l flywheel clutch and pressure plate althoug the 1.8s will work.
Due to the idle air control setup and connections to the ECU, the 1.8 throttle body was retained. a blockoff plate was made to cover the idle air port on the newer 2.5 manifold.
the new style fuel injector connectors were spliced onto the 1.8 harness becuase i used the newer style injectors on the 01' 2.5.
crank and cam sensors, engne temp sensor, and oil press switch all plugged right in to the 1.8 wiring.
the temp gauge sensor was rewired, the older 1.8 had a small sensor with 1 wire whereas the newer 2,5 had a newer 3 wire sensor, i changed the connector to the newer sensor, blocked off two of the pins and ran the bottom wire to the temp guage.
I used the 1.8 coil pack and had plug wires made. if using a DOHC 2.5 stock 2.5 wires should work. I needed old style connectors on the coil end and newer style on the plug end. GOt them custom made and overnighted for 50 bucks from kingsborne wire werks.
EGR did not exist on the 2.5 so i hooked the harness to the solinoids which i retained and just plugged them off.
Knock sensor is not used
stock 1.8 intake and MAF sensor are used.
the only thing i can say to watch out for is the crank trigger on the timing sprocket that triggers the crank sensor.
the older cars it was all the same one, but for the newer (i think 2000 and up) there is a different ring on the manual trans cars. So if you want to use the 1.8 ECU you need to switch it over to the other timing spocket, or reuse the 1.8s
thats all i can think of.
Ive got over 7,000 miles on the 2.5 with the 1.8 ECU. I drive it hard too. it does run alittle too rich, occasionally when going WOT it bogs slightly cause when the ECU switches modes is over fuels, after a week i was used to this and learned to drive at 99% throttle and it does great, no problems. it will bog when really cold out for the same reason unless you let it warm up. if you start and drive it when cold it bogs if you get on it, if you let it warm up for a few min. it runs like normal.
Gas mileage on the 2.5 with the 1.8 ECU is around 26-28 MPG and i hit WOT at least 3 times every time i drive it.
Some vacuum lines will need to be rerouted, just sit down with a service manual and match them up. they will match up, just takes some time. My local dealer photocopied the pages i neededform the service manual for me. I am really happy with the results, it only cost me about 200 bucks because I already had the engine.
It depends... It will run perfectly fine off the 1.8 ECU, it will run rich though. if you want it act 100% like a 2.5 RS then change the harness and ECU Etc.
I did it cause my 1.8l had so many oil leaks i was sick of chasing down and wanted more power.
2.5 bolts right into the mounts and trans, i used a stock 2.5l flywheel clutch and pressure plate althoug the 1.8s will work.
Due to the idle air control setup and connections to the ECU, the 1.8 throttle body was retained. a blockoff plate was made to cover the idle air port on the newer 2.5 manifold.
the new style fuel injector connectors were spliced onto the 1.8 harness becuase i used the newer style injectors on the 01' 2.5.
crank and cam sensors, engne temp sensor, and oil press switch all plugged right in to the 1.8 wiring.
the temp gauge sensor was rewired, the older 1.8 had a small sensor with 1 wire whereas the newer 2,5 had a newer 3 wire sensor, i changed the connector to the newer sensor, blocked off two of the pins and ran the bottom wire to the temp guage.
I used the 1.8 coil pack and had plug wires made. if using a DOHC 2.5 stock 2.5 wires should work. I needed old style connectors on the coil end and newer style on the plug end. GOt them custom made and overnighted for 50 bucks from kingsborne wire werks.
EGR did not exist on the 2.5 so i hooked the harness to the solinoids which i retained and just plugged them off.
Knock sensor is not used
stock 1.8 intake and MAF sensor are used.
the only thing i can say to watch out for is the crank trigger on the timing sprocket that triggers the crank sensor.
the older cars it was all the same one, but for the newer (i think 2000 and up) there is a different ring on the manual trans cars. So if you want to use the 1.8 ECU you need to switch it over to the other timing spocket, or reuse the 1.8s
thats all i can think of.
Ive got over 7,000 miles on the 2.5 with the 1.8 ECU. I drive it hard too. it does run alittle too rich, occasionally when going WOT it bogs slightly cause when the ECU switches modes is over fuels, after a week i was used to this and learned to drive at 99% throttle and it does great, no problems. it will bog when really cold out for the same reason unless you let it warm up. if you start and drive it when cold it bogs if you get on it, if you let it warm up for a few min. it runs like normal.
Gas mileage on the 2.5 with the 1.8 ECU is around 26-28 MPG and i hit WOT at least 3 times every time i drive it.
Some vacuum lines will need to be rerouted, just sit down with a service manual and match them up. they will match up, just takes some time. My local dealer photocopied the pages i neededform the service manual for me. I am really happy with the results, it only cost me about 200 bucks because I already had the engine.
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