oj.
brief outline for FAQ. willl be constantly updating as i figure out what i actually did last week :P
Logic behind my RHD;
1. EJ20 requires mad wiring - i suck at wiring but good at mechanical such.
****Took me about 13 hours for the mechanical conversion VS 45+ for wiring by people smarter than me****
2. if you need to hydro pedal box conversion for turbo clutch, the RHD pedal box is included. LHD hydro pedal box is hard to find.
3. Sti RHD quick steer rack is 2.7 turn lock instead of 3.0
4. GC8 Electronic AC is cool looking and neat - no need to work wiring.
5. RHD brake booster, MC and Prop valve are well matched to STi brakes. USDM single stage BB, 15/16ths MC and stock L pvalve are not idea (blow through 1/2 travel, lock rear brakes easily)
6. LHD AC condensor will NOT clear EJ20 radiator. i like having AC (live in texas)
7. JDM cars most came with non-airbag. Non airbag wheel middle is ideal for use with aftermarket steering wheels (easy to make horn work)
8. Use of RHD complete harness allows easy use of EJ20 radiator fans and other such - the EJ20 radiator bundle runs under the apron instead of on top. differnt plugs etc-
9. RHD JDM sti seats will have the proper adjusters for RHD (i need to buy some still)
Downsides to RHD:
1. You have to be comfortable with adjusing to RHD. not hard, but if u already drive like a suck - no dice. must be coordinated with left hand, and be able to force brain to swap sides. ITS FREAKIN WEIRD.
2. you have to fabricate mad brackets. basically, you remove all LHD brackets, all RHD brackets, and fit the RHD brackets in the proper areas. this requires having a drill with an awesome drill bit- i used a 3/16ths Cobalt bit - hasnt broken yet, and corresponding 3/16ths pop riviter. i dont have a welder, would enjoy welding everything but ill take care of it when i have the other bugs sorted out.
3. power windows dont match up. havnt figured out the wiring yet - just got tailights working, should update when i figure this out.
4. your interior probably wont match. o well, not that bad - my USDM interior is tired as hell anyway.
5. a complete JDM carpet is hard to find. i have one though, but its somting to think about
6. you dont need to remove your interior stuffs, leave AC charged if you are using undersized USA radiator and wussy melt-able plastic fans.
what to buy:
1. 1 complte impreza L. ideally with great body and dead drivetrain
2. Complete JDM RHD EJ20 front clip - unmolested, unmodified is much ideal - the whole car if u can baller it.
3. rear Xmember if possible with rear diff and suches
How to do.
1. Remove EVERYTHING USDM LHD interior. EVERYTHING.
- front interior, carpet, center trim bits, dash, pedal box, AC box / Heater box, blower. Steering collum - just remove plugs and unbolt at u joint and the 2 bolts holding the steering shaft to the support member - pull out entire thing with wheel attached!
2. strip the engine bay;
- motor, gearbox, airbox stuff, Brake MC, Clutch MC(if u have one - u probably dont if its a L), Brake lines, Brake pvalve, hill holder thingbob, heater lines, radiator, fans, AC condensor, AC bits
3. remove complete wiring harness. EVERYTHING
- inside bulkhead bundle, ECU, fender harnesses, front radiator harness, Fusebox, Everything. just put back the little bolts in the holes, that way you dont loose them all.
4. pull EJ20 from clip. either pull up, or drop entire crossmember with gearbox attached. thats the best way if u have the space to do it, just drop the whole drivetrain, control arms and everything attached. Leave ignitor and boost solinoids attached to vacume lines, just zip tie it on the intake manifold so you dont get the lines confuzzled later.
5. Set EJ20 aside, pull small engine bay stuffs - airbox, IC water spray, Radiator overflow, radiator and AC if u havnt pulled it yet-
6. transfer the small bits one by one to your USDM engine bay one by one so you dont loose the place.
7. strip out LHD interior, put pieces in a logical order so u can refer to them at reassembly
8. get drill with awesum sharp drill bit and start drilling. compare brackets taht are spot welded and drill out hte spot welds, youll have to do a bit of prying and tapping and such. dont worry too much, you can always bend them back into shape with a metal bodywork hammer.
9. drill out all associated LHD brackets, then fit in RHD ones. steering hole needs to get cut, clutch mount, brake booster mount, throttle cable hole, etc etc. ecu bracket etc-.
10. refit everything.
11. Put in your drivetrain - self x-planitory. fill fluids, bleed brakes, clutch, etc.
12. plug everything in
13. wire in rear wiring harness SMJ to fuel. Plug R1 in the JDM goes from the main harness bundle to the body (controls tailights, fuel pump, etc). you need to hook up fuel pump wires - they are almost the same, and then just find the signal wires and hook those up. took me about 1.5 hours with no diagrams and a test light - EASY)
fire it up. Mine is quite quite quick.
RHD is crazy. the sensation is neat, im getting used to shifting and such now, the 2.7 lock rack is a bit touchy, so i was all over the road. besides not having ever driven a RHD car in my life, the first one i come in contact with is my own . DOUBLE THE POWER, wrong hand drive, crazy short gears, almonst no lag. its a beast of a car
Monday, June 04, 2007
Swap: USDM vs JDM
this applies for EJ20(G,K,T,05, 07, etc)
if you dont know how to work on a car, please refer to the trusty FSM (factory service manual). A subaru is simple enough that with $100 worth of hand tools you can do anything.
You can find downloads for the 2002 USDM GDA FSM and the older JDM GC8 FSM somewhere on this website. hit the search button, i wont give it to you because i dont know where it is.
so what you need to know.
#1. All imprezas are almost fulley interchangable, All motors will fit each other, All transmission will fit each other. You may have to convert things to make them totally compatible, BUT they will fit - provided you do the proper monkey work and have the right parts.
Examples
can i put a ej205 2005 WRX engine on my 1994 FWD transmission??
-YES.
Can i put a 2001 AWD gearbox on my 1993 EJ18 engine??
-YES.
etc, etc, etc
#2. transplanting the proper bits from your setup is rquired -
Example:
problem: i wish to put a 1998 DOHC Ej25 engine on my FWD 1995 automatic impreza
solution: get EJ25 converted to 95 EJ18 wiring harness, then bolt up COMPLETE automatic parts to it (torque converter plate, torque converter etc)
#3. Can i convert my FWD to AWD? Can i convert my AWD to FWD? can i convert my FWD/AWD to RWD
-YES. Look for the proper FAQ to find the solution.
Steps in logistically doing your conversion:
1. find FSM for your existing setup and for whats going into it.
i.e.- if putting 1996 Sti-RA EJ20 into 2003 USDM 2.5RS, get both FSM. you need all the info you need.
2. Figure out the logistical scope of your project; how much $$$ you need to blow, how much $$$ you have to blow, how much time / manpower / tools you need and have.
3. Get all your ducks lined up - get all the parts in or slotted to arrive JIT (just in time)
4. do it.
so my secret to doing efficient (time /cash) EJ20 swap.
--my personal pervious experiance in swaps;
2002 - FWD-> awd gas tank / disc brake conversion on 93 impreza
2003 - EJ20G sti version 1 into FWD 94 EJ18 5 speed car
2003 - EJ25 DOHC into EJ18 FWD car
2003 - AWD sti version 1 gearbox into FWD EJ18 car with Hyrolic clutch conversion and turbo transmission setup / clutc
2003 - EJ20G sti engine into EJ18 FWD car - full engine bay conversion
2004 - drove car around and was happy
2005 - 1998 180SX type X blacktop into 89 Sohc S13 car
2005 - 1995 STi-RA v2 v-limited 3.9 Gearbox swap into place of 4.11 sti version 1 gearbox with Mechanical LSD rear swap into Viscous 3.9 housing
2005 - (coming up) 1995 Sti-RA V2 V-limited EJ20G entire engine bay and interior into 94 impreza with RHD conversion, electronic climate control and brake/clutch conversion for RHD......
So - going into my personal favorite conversion - what i am doing and what i put my money into (i dont listen to anyone who dosn't put their money where their mouth is)
you have a early impreza (1993-2001) i prefer early (pre 97 because its lighter). you want to have better stuff-
you need to buy a front clip. YUP. entire frekin front clip.
why the whole monty?
You actually get everything. no cut wires, nada.
You get more than you need - you can sell off anything u dont need.
Cool toys come with it -$$$$ aluminum control arms, Fatty radiator, Extra coolant overflow tank, Waterspray tank, Power steering oil cooler, Etc, etc.
if you are lucky you'll get a undamaged hood and a bumper too.
regardless, you can sell everything you dont need and it'll help offset your costs severely.
No turbo kits, no excuses, no lamearse EJ205 engine that needs $2000 thrown into it to be interesting, get the real deal. you need a JDM EJ20.
why? its the best bang for the bank. easy, Cheap (relatively), simple to do.
You can do a USDM swap, but for the expense involved ill pass. a 2004 STi would be nice with EJ257, but that is for ballers. if you get your hands on an entire USDM car dirt cheap, go for it. otherwise stick with the JDM.
have i worked on the USDM WRX? yes. i sold them before you drove them. Do i like it? my best friend has a well tuned 235 AWHP machine that i enjoy. is it good? of course its good, but $2000 of tuning bits dosnt seem a really good deal on top of the stock EJ205. not in my book. more reasons that the EJ205 isnt good enough - look at the market demand for EJ207's.
so EJ20G old skool is the best bank for the bang. comparisons with a well tuned EJ205;
will the Ej20g will be less responsive? will it make less power?
yes--IF comparing STOCK 94-96 EJ20g with hydrolic lifters, stock downpipe / flywheel/crank pulley and everything in comparison to a EJ205 standard usdm WRX motor with no cats, ECU retune to 300 CHP, aftermarket downpipe and up pipe.
Why? its obvious, response and tuning does what you pay $2000 for.
Is the older EJ20g head design inferior to the newer MEchanical ("sti version 6 head casting") ??
Yes. It is not as responsive at higher rpm's -6,000 +
does it matter? not really. not for the price differance.
What about putting an older Japenese motor in my newer car (i.e. 94-96 EJ20g into my 99 RS). Sure, why not? JDM motors only have at most 60,000 miles - it plugs in and works just fine.
all this being said, if i coould get a version 8 EJ207 to drop in my own car instead of my sti-RA version 2, id do it in a jiffy, but last time i checked - longblocks were abo9ut $8000. i dont have $8000. if you do, procede to the baller section and read somone else's FAQ.
ok. prices;
EJ20G 1994-1996 WRX front cuts can be bought for under $2500 bucks. UNDER $2500.
EJ20K 1997-2001 WRX front cuts should run you about $4500 or so.
is it worth it to go for the later ones? in my opion no, but to each his own. I'd rather spend the extra $2000 on footwork or really good food and beer, or a ticket to go to TAS.
wont the earlier clips be harder to put in my later car?
perhaps, if u are doing the wiring yourself. Otherwise the wise guru's at lachute and i-speed and the like are professionals at wiring, and it shouldnt phase them at all.
Mechanically, they are all the same.
in my book, there are 2 ways to do this conversion.
LHD and RHD.
************************************************** **********
the LHD conversion is intense. Mad props to sam (powerlabs), and anyone else who has the guts to deal with 40 lbs of wiring hell. MAD props.
i will do any sort of monkeying mechanically, but wiring scares the ehll outa me. wiring on a SR20DET wasn't bad, but thats a walk in the park compared to a subaru.
option 1 for LHD - strip all harnesses out of your donor clip and your current car, send both to a ace shop - lachute, i-speed, rallispec, etc. Pay them $$$ for their hard work, and they will chop both harnesses and make them into one proper one for you. Will you pay for it?? YES. but its worth all the cost. I'd budget $800-$1000 for that option, i'd never do it myself.
option 2. Be an animal like yamaharocket, or powerlabs and do it yourself. when i think of this option i usually cry like a little girl. you need to pinout all the wiring, and splice things to where they need to be. not fun.
option 3. be king of monkey labor and extend all the RHD wiring. We've done this on my friends 1994 STi version 1 swap. Not fun, but easier IMO than splicing to USDM harness. figure out where everything needs to go (from looking at the JDM FSM) and then make the plugs happen there.
************************************************** **************
RHD swap. its like a choose your own adventure book.
For a JDM EJ20 conversion, I feel that RHD swap is hte best way to do it. i'm going this route for my personal car - i put my money where my mouth is.
why?
everytrthing fits perfectly. Every single wire, EVery sensor for electronic climate control, Every bit for power steering, AC, Everything.
what is the catch - ? you have to learn how to drive RHD, but the mail man does it, and my IQ is > than the average mailman, so you can do it too.
if you want to complain to me about RHD, go away. im not listening to it. half the world drives RHD, suck it up.
only 1 wiring plug to deal with, its R1 off the SMJ - goes to the rear bundle (fuel pump, Turn signals and the like. Besides for that, you are golden. Plug it all in and you hott.
************************************************** *************
what about the Hydrolic pedal box and such? which gearbox should i use.
the 4.11 gearbox that comes with the JDM wrx is awesome. the USDM WRX gearbox is a POS in comparison, trust me.
you'll want to use the proper JDM gearbox with the proper JDM EJ20 motor. you'll have to make sure you have a 4.11 rear diff, LSD or not isnt important for now, deal with that later if you havnt already done it.
for RHD cars you can run the complete RHD hydrolic pedal box assembly, feor LHD you need to obtain a LHD hydrolic pedal box and clutch MC assembly. the slave cylinder is good for either LHD or RHD. Use the turbo clutch and everything in your kit - youll neeed to have all the parts, but it will all be there because you are buying a complete front clip intact.
Buy the sucker intact. FULL front half of car. the full monty.
anything i left out - please post. if you want to debate USDM vs JDM, please post on differnt thread. i'm extremely biased and have good reason to be so
if you care about emissions or need to pass inspection - find a shady smog man. or register your car in a cool state like michigan. a JDM Ej20g WILL pass california smog legit, you just neeed to have it properly installed with cats.
if you dont know how to work on a car, please refer to the trusty FSM (factory service manual). A subaru is simple enough that with $100 worth of hand tools you can do anything.
You can find downloads for the 2002 USDM GDA FSM and the older JDM GC8 FSM somewhere on this website. hit the search button, i wont give it to you because i dont know where it is.
so what you need to know.
#1. All imprezas are almost fulley interchangable, All motors will fit each other, All transmission will fit each other. You may have to convert things to make them totally compatible, BUT they will fit - provided you do the proper monkey work and have the right parts.
Examples
can i put a ej205 2005 WRX engine on my 1994 FWD transmission??
-YES.
Can i put a 2001 AWD gearbox on my 1993 EJ18 engine??
-YES.
etc, etc, etc
#2. transplanting the proper bits from your setup is rquired -
Example:
problem: i wish to put a 1998 DOHC Ej25 engine on my FWD 1995 automatic impreza
solution: get EJ25 converted to 95 EJ18 wiring harness, then bolt up COMPLETE automatic parts to it (torque converter plate, torque converter etc)
#3. Can i convert my FWD to AWD? Can i convert my AWD to FWD? can i convert my FWD/AWD to RWD
-YES. Look for the proper FAQ to find the solution.
Steps in logistically doing your conversion:
1. find FSM for your existing setup and for whats going into it.
i.e.- if putting 1996 Sti-RA EJ20 into 2003 USDM 2.5RS, get both FSM. you need all the info you need.
2. Figure out the logistical scope of your project; how much $$$ you need to blow, how much $$$ you have to blow, how much time / manpower / tools you need and have.
3. Get all your ducks lined up - get all the parts in or slotted to arrive JIT (just in time)
4. do it.
so my secret to doing efficient (time /cash) EJ20 swap.
--my personal pervious experiance in swaps;
2002 - FWD-> awd gas tank / disc brake conversion on 93 impreza
2003 - EJ20G sti version 1 into FWD 94 EJ18 5 speed car
2003 - EJ25 DOHC into EJ18 FWD car
2003 - AWD sti version 1 gearbox into FWD EJ18 car with Hyrolic clutch conversion and turbo transmission setup / clutc
2003 - EJ20G sti engine into EJ18 FWD car - full engine bay conversion
2004 - drove car around and was happy
2005 - 1998 180SX type X blacktop into 89 Sohc S13 car
2005 - 1995 STi-RA v2 v-limited 3.9 Gearbox swap into place of 4.11 sti version 1 gearbox with Mechanical LSD rear swap into Viscous 3.9 housing
2005 - (coming up) 1995 Sti-RA V2 V-limited EJ20G entire engine bay and interior into 94 impreza with RHD conversion, electronic climate control and brake/clutch conversion for RHD......
So - going into my personal favorite conversion - what i am doing and what i put my money into (i dont listen to anyone who dosn't put their money where their mouth is)
you have a early impreza (1993-2001) i prefer early (pre 97 because its lighter). you want to have better stuff-
you need to buy a front clip. YUP. entire frekin front clip.
why the whole monty?
You actually get everything. no cut wires, nada.
You get more than you need - you can sell off anything u dont need.
Cool toys come with it -$$$$ aluminum control arms, Fatty radiator, Extra coolant overflow tank, Waterspray tank, Power steering oil cooler, Etc, etc.
if you are lucky you'll get a undamaged hood and a bumper too.
regardless, you can sell everything you dont need and it'll help offset your costs severely.
No turbo kits, no excuses, no lamearse EJ205 engine that needs $2000 thrown into it to be interesting, get the real deal. you need a JDM EJ20.
why? its the best bang for the bank. easy, Cheap (relatively), simple to do.
You can do a USDM swap, but for the expense involved ill pass. a 2004 STi would be nice with EJ257, but that is for ballers. if you get your hands on an entire USDM car dirt cheap, go for it. otherwise stick with the JDM.
have i worked on the USDM WRX? yes. i sold them before you drove them. Do i like it? my best friend has a well tuned 235 AWHP machine that i enjoy. is it good? of course its good, but $2000 of tuning bits dosnt seem a really good deal on top of the stock EJ205. not in my book. more reasons that the EJ205 isnt good enough - look at the market demand for EJ207's.
so EJ20G old skool is the best bank for the bang. comparisons with a well tuned EJ205;
will the Ej20g will be less responsive? will it make less power?
yes--IF comparing STOCK 94-96 EJ20g with hydrolic lifters, stock downpipe / flywheel/crank pulley and everything in comparison to a EJ205 standard usdm WRX motor with no cats, ECU retune to 300 CHP, aftermarket downpipe and up pipe.
Why? its obvious, response and tuning does what you pay $2000 for.
Is the older EJ20g head design inferior to the newer MEchanical ("sti version 6 head casting") ??
Yes. It is not as responsive at higher rpm's -6,000 +
does it matter? not really. not for the price differance.
What about putting an older Japenese motor in my newer car (i.e. 94-96 EJ20g into my 99 RS). Sure, why not? JDM motors only have at most 60,000 miles - it plugs in and works just fine.
all this being said, if i coould get a version 8 EJ207 to drop in my own car instead of my sti-RA version 2, id do it in a jiffy, but last time i checked - longblocks were abo9ut $8000. i dont have $8000. if you do, procede to the baller section and read somone else's FAQ.
ok. prices;
EJ20G 1994-1996 WRX front cuts can be bought for under $2500 bucks. UNDER $2500.
EJ20K 1997-2001 WRX front cuts should run you about $4500 or so.
is it worth it to go for the later ones? in my opion no, but to each his own. I'd rather spend the extra $2000 on footwork or really good food and beer, or a ticket to go to TAS.
wont the earlier clips be harder to put in my later car?
perhaps, if u are doing the wiring yourself. Otherwise the wise guru's at lachute and i-speed and the like are professionals at wiring, and it shouldnt phase them at all.
Mechanically, they are all the same.
in my book, there are 2 ways to do this conversion.
LHD and RHD.
************************************************** **********
the LHD conversion is intense. Mad props to sam (powerlabs), and anyone else who has the guts to deal with 40 lbs of wiring hell. MAD props.
i will do any sort of monkeying mechanically, but wiring scares the ehll outa me. wiring on a SR20DET wasn't bad, but thats a walk in the park compared to a subaru.
option 1 for LHD - strip all harnesses out of your donor clip and your current car, send both to a ace shop - lachute, i-speed, rallispec, etc. Pay them $$$ for their hard work, and they will chop both harnesses and make them into one proper one for you. Will you pay for it?? YES. but its worth all the cost. I'd budget $800-$1000 for that option, i'd never do it myself.
option 2. Be an animal like yamaharocket, or powerlabs and do it yourself. when i think of this option i usually cry like a little girl. you need to pinout all the wiring, and splice things to where they need to be. not fun.
option 3. be king of monkey labor and extend all the RHD wiring. We've done this on my friends 1994 STi version 1 swap. Not fun, but easier IMO than splicing to USDM harness. figure out where everything needs to go (from looking at the JDM FSM) and then make the plugs happen there.
************************************************** **************
RHD swap. its like a choose your own adventure book.
For a JDM EJ20 conversion, I feel that RHD swap is hte best way to do it. i'm going this route for my personal car - i put my money where my mouth is.
why?
everytrthing fits perfectly. Every single wire, EVery sensor for electronic climate control, Every bit for power steering, AC, Everything.
what is the catch - ? you have to learn how to drive RHD, but the mail man does it, and my IQ is > than the average mailman, so you can do it too.
if you want to complain to me about RHD, go away. im not listening to it. half the world drives RHD, suck it up.
only 1 wiring plug to deal with, its R1 off the SMJ - goes to the rear bundle (fuel pump, Turn signals and the like. Besides for that, you are golden. Plug it all in and you hott.
************************************************** *************
what about the Hydrolic pedal box and such? which gearbox should i use.
the 4.11 gearbox that comes with the JDM wrx is awesome. the USDM WRX gearbox is a POS in comparison, trust me.
you'll want to use the proper JDM gearbox with the proper JDM EJ20 motor. you'll have to make sure you have a 4.11 rear diff, LSD or not isnt important for now, deal with that later if you havnt already done it.
for RHD cars you can run the complete RHD hydrolic pedal box assembly, feor LHD you need to obtain a LHD hydrolic pedal box and clutch MC assembly. the slave cylinder is good for either LHD or RHD. Use the turbo clutch and everything in your kit - youll neeed to have all the parts, but it will all be there because you are buying a complete front clip intact.
Buy the sucker intact. FULL front half of car. the full monty.
anything i left out - please post. if you want to debate USDM vs JDM, please post on differnt thread. i'm extremely biased and have good reason to be so
if you care about emissions or need to pass inspection - find a shady smog man. or register your car in a cool state like michigan. a JDM Ej20g WILL pass california smog legit, you just neeed to have it properly installed with cats.
Wednesday, May 30, 2007
engines jibber jabber
version 4 and version 5 are differnt in the phase 1/2 riff. head ports are redesigned, cams are milder, but electrionics are more advanced. some things changed on it - (redesign in all castings (head/block/transmission shell), make it a more modern day production animal (mechanically). just as GDB A/B are very differnt than GDB E/F, its a natural progression thing.
in summary:
ej20g and K are very similar dyna and response. arguably preferable to the ej207 gc8's, arguably not.
G and K differ in the way that a B18C1 and b18C5 differ. both can stand up to the same stress numbers, but one does a more outstanding job at it. both c1 and c5 can rev to 9K, and kick in vtec , but the C5 does it with more output because its simply more efficient. better head ports, bigger valves, titaninum stuff for crazy response attack, lightweight pistons to attack rpms more rapidly, thats the state of the tune. the K is much more sophisticated in a NA tune fashion than the g is. both at 1.5 bar will make you go crazy, the K will just carry more power under the curve getting there.
subaru went from 8.5:1 compression and 280ps to 8:1 compression and 280 ps without changing much. the turbines are changed for more response and torque under the curve, but the ultimate output is the same. in this sense, its the turbine that makes up for the lack of compresssion, but it can be further digressed in a more explicit mannter.
i.e. my car;
Ej20G sti RA car, ran 8.5:1 sti ver2 ra V-limited motor, then a 9:1 ej20H normal twin turbo legacy longmotor, and now is rockin a EJ20K ver3 sti- ra V-limited motor.
same turbine, same ecu, same exhaust setup, same intercooler setup.
to compare, the G ra motor and the H legacy motor drive almost identical. the .5 extra compression of the legacy has noticable improved off throttle response in the 10-20% throttle range. spool off throttle is advanced too, the compression reduces response time.
__________________
the sti - RA motors had the same valves, springs, heads, cams, as the normal WRX ej20G's, but the differance of lighter weight (probbaly 15g or so lighter) pistons, and mechanically activated valvetrain compared to the hydrolic, but performance is negligable. the only differance is a slight accelleration in rotating mas movement, and more precise actulation of airflow at very high rpms - 7,500 rpm ++ where the turbine has already dropped out of ideal zone to be at (meaning you shouild have shifted already).
before you go hunting and asking me -"where can i get an RA", please note.
*ej20g- only "STi-RA" cars had mechanical valvetrain. i believe 800 total were made. rare even in japan.
*wrx ra is not the same.
*there is no point in wasting the extra money to have this particular setup. if you are bench racing, just buy the sticker and pretend like you spent 2x the money that you did.
*EJ20K is considerably better than the ver2 sti-ra head, and so you are just being silly by demanding the older version thats not as good.
so we move on to the EJ20K, as the wrx normal G and wrx-sti-ra G are basically the same thing with the H legacy being a very slight change (but preffered by me and arguably faster lap time).
the Ej20K in my car currently is paired exactally like all the previous EJ20's. Ej20G computer, intake manifold, side entry td05 turbine, stock exhaust, same catless downpipe, same boost map setting, everything. same gearbox, same car, same monkey behind the wheel.
my initial critizim before i drove it was if the drop in compression to 8:1 + the aggresive high rpm side vavetrain and port setup would make it a dog with the bigger, laggier td05. I was wrong.
to think, a 9:1 compression ej20K with flattop short skirts would be a mad setup...
the 8:1 lacks to the 9:! h in one area only. 10-20% throttle zone, the response is a little further away. it makes up in airflow completely from 20-25%, and as the rpms climb, it sucks in a lot more air.
why?
cams. valves, heads all more optimized and refined for air consumption.
it has a floaty feeling of surge to it:
rotating mass is 25g lighter in pistons, valvetrain components are lighter as well
the next progression in this setup witll be 9:1 compression with wrc short skirt flat tops and 2134cc stroker kit...
in summary:
ej20g and K are very similar dyna and response. arguably preferable to the ej207 gc8's, arguably not.
G and K differ in the way that a B18C1 and b18C5 differ. both can stand up to the same stress numbers, but one does a more outstanding job at it. both c1 and c5 can rev to 9K, and kick in vtec , but the C5 does it with more output because its simply more efficient. better head ports, bigger valves, titaninum stuff for crazy response attack, lightweight pistons to attack rpms more rapidly, thats the state of the tune. the K is much more sophisticated in a NA tune fashion than the g is. both at 1.5 bar will make you go crazy, the K will just carry more power under the curve getting there.
subaru went from 8.5:1 compression and 280ps to 8:1 compression and 280 ps without changing much. the turbines are changed for more response and torque under the curve, but the ultimate output is the same. in this sense, its the turbine that makes up for the lack of compresssion, but it can be further digressed in a more explicit mannter.
i.e. my car;
Ej20G sti RA car, ran 8.5:1 sti ver2 ra V-limited motor, then a 9:1 ej20H normal twin turbo legacy longmotor, and now is rockin a EJ20K ver3 sti- ra V-limited motor.
same turbine, same ecu, same exhaust setup, same intercooler setup.
to compare, the G ra motor and the H legacy motor drive almost identical. the .5 extra compression of the legacy has noticable improved off throttle response in the 10-20% throttle range. spool off throttle is advanced too, the compression reduces response time.
__________________
the sti - RA motors had the same valves, springs, heads, cams, as the normal WRX ej20G's, but the differance of lighter weight (probbaly 15g or so lighter) pistons, and mechanically activated valvetrain compared to the hydrolic, but performance is negligable. the only differance is a slight accelleration in rotating mas movement, and more precise actulation of airflow at very high rpms - 7,500 rpm ++ where the turbine has already dropped out of ideal zone to be at (meaning you shouild have shifted already).
before you go hunting and asking me -"where can i get an RA", please note.
*ej20g- only "STi-RA" cars had mechanical valvetrain. i believe 800 total were made. rare even in japan.
*wrx ra is not the same.
*there is no point in wasting the extra money to have this particular setup. if you are bench racing, just buy the sticker and pretend like you spent 2x the money that you did.
*EJ20K is considerably better than the ver2 sti-ra head, and so you are just being silly by demanding the older version thats not as good.
so we move on to the EJ20K, as the wrx normal G and wrx-sti-ra G are basically the same thing with the H legacy being a very slight change (but preffered by me and arguably faster lap time).
the Ej20K in my car currently is paired exactally like all the previous EJ20's. Ej20G computer, intake manifold, side entry td05 turbine, stock exhaust, same catless downpipe, same boost map setting, everything. same gearbox, same car, same monkey behind the wheel.
my initial critizim before i drove it was if the drop in compression to 8:1 + the aggresive high rpm side vavetrain and port setup would make it a dog with the bigger, laggier td05. I was wrong.
to think, a 9:1 compression ej20K with flattop short skirts would be a mad setup...
the 8:1 lacks to the 9:! h in one area only. 10-20% throttle zone, the response is a little further away. it makes up in airflow completely from 20-25%, and as the rpms climb, it sucks in a lot more air.
why?
cams. valves, heads all more optimized and refined for air consumption.
it has a floaty feeling of surge to it:
rotating mass is 25g lighter in pistons, valvetrain components are lighter as well
the next progression in this setup witll be 9:1 compression with wrc short skirt flat tops and 2134cc stroker kit...
Thursday, May 03, 2007
Ej20G varients.
to address the first thing people think of when EJ20G comes to mind;
Closed deck vs open deck.
I'm here to publicly state that closed deck is stupid. Sorry mike shields fanboys, sorry mike shields. closed deck is pointless. an open deck Ej20 can do 60 psi before the cylinder walls crack. Everyone knows that the person behind the closed deck theory has a EJ20g in his car, I know that he runs a stock ecu and dosn't go over stock 1 bar of boost. Car vs car, the WRX-RA we put together in 16 hours would beat his closed deck SPD special in a drag race.
closed deck has no advantage unless you are going over 600 AWHP. if you dont have a GT40R on your workbench, dont even think about debating with me that open deck is better than closed.
this being stated, lets go on to outline the differnt varients of EJ20g
All ej20G's have the same Forged crankshaft, Forged connecting rods, cylinderheads, Valves, Cams, exhaust manifold, up pipe, downpipe, throttlebody, fuel injectors and complete electrical system (ABS cars have abs added in, power windows, etc)
Ej20G wagons had td04 turbines. Ej20g wagon Sti-s had TD05-16g turbines
all wrx sedans had Td05-16g's. same turbine on sti, sti- ra, wrx-ra. all identical
the WRX-RA and Sti-RA have a 5th injector plumbed in the centre of the intake manifold. it dosnt do anything. it dosnt even work
Sti ej20g motors have a painted red intake manifold. only differance is the paint. sti-RA's have a non-painted manifold with a 5th injector
supposedly the STi engine ej20G and Sti-ra have forged pistons. I have yet to have a need to remove pistons to weight them, we'll verify this eventually sometime by comparing a normal wrx and sti piston
valvetrain on all EJ20G's with exception of the rare Sti-RA only are HLA under bucket. all cams are same duration and profile. only the sti-ra has mechanical valvetrain- little liter disc shims under the buckets.
Besides for these minor changes, the only major differance between any varient of ej20G (assuming sedan td05 turbine) is really the ECU. the ECU is everything in these cars, if you plug a sti-RA ecu into a normal WRX ej20g....... you get STi-RA performance. the td05 turbine is out of efficiency range by 7300rpm at best, HLA's will spin to 8500 before floating - you do the math. usually a shift is best performed by the time 7k rolls around
Closed deck vs open deck.
I'm here to publicly state that closed deck is stupid. Sorry mike shields fanboys, sorry mike shields. closed deck is pointless. an open deck Ej20 can do 60 psi before the cylinder walls crack. Everyone knows that the person behind the closed deck theory has a EJ20g in his car, I know that he runs a stock ecu and dosn't go over stock 1 bar of boost. Car vs car, the WRX-RA we put together in 16 hours would beat his closed deck SPD special in a drag race.
closed deck has no advantage unless you are going over 600 AWHP. if you dont have a GT40R on your workbench, dont even think about debating with me that open deck is better than closed.
this being stated, lets go on to outline the differnt varients of EJ20g
All ej20G's have the same Forged crankshaft, Forged connecting rods, cylinderheads, Valves, Cams, exhaust manifold, up pipe, downpipe, throttlebody, fuel injectors and complete electrical system (ABS cars have abs added in, power windows, etc)
Ej20G wagons had td04 turbines. Ej20g wagon Sti-s had TD05-16g turbines
all wrx sedans had Td05-16g's. same turbine on sti, sti- ra, wrx-ra. all identical
the WRX-RA and Sti-RA have a 5th injector plumbed in the centre of the intake manifold. it dosnt do anything. it dosnt even work
Sti ej20g motors have a painted red intake manifold. only differance is the paint. sti-RA's have a non-painted manifold with a 5th injector
supposedly the STi engine ej20G and Sti-ra have forged pistons. I have yet to have a need to remove pistons to weight them, we'll verify this eventually sometime by comparing a normal wrx and sti piston
valvetrain on all EJ20G's with exception of the rare Sti-RA only are HLA under bucket. all cams are same duration and profile. only the sti-ra has mechanical valvetrain- little liter disc shims under the buckets.
Besides for these minor changes, the only major differance between any varient of ej20G (assuming sedan td05 turbine) is really the ECU. the ECU is everything in these cars, if you plug a sti-RA ecu into a normal WRX ej20g....... you get STi-RA performance. the td05 turbine is out of efficiency range by 7300rpm at best, HLA's will spin to 8500 before floating - you do the math. usually a shift is best performed by the time 7k rolls around
Monday, April 16, 2007
ej20 whatnots
my notes on ej20 wrx transplants.-
ej257 (usdm 2.5L sti). long-block is good to 530 awhp, probably would live all day at 400 chp. i dont like it because it dosnt rev high and isn't constructed to the level of the JDM 2.0L blocks. heads are crappier too. if you want to build your own torque beasty, just get the short-block ($1400 new) and throw some 2.0 l heads on it and make custom frankenstein. works very well. kinda pricey for me
USDM ej205. i wouldn't bother with it, but if you goal is 300 chp and a max usable power rpm of 6500 or so, its easy to find for cheap. wiring is a bizzle, but the parts are plentiful. full motor conversion ranges from $1500 on the dirt to $4K installed. Toys are always extra, so you probably looking at an up pipe and a full turbo back exhaust with a upgraded ECU (accesport,ecutek etc). 300 chp is be easy with stock ecu td04, td04 and IC. its not bad, but JDM is better. the EJ205 is hampered with stupid things like TGV, low compression, and a terrible gearbox.
JDM EJ207 (v7/8/9). the best thing money can buy. but it costs alot of money to buy. power is all in the heads, open deck (technically semi-closed) but it'll handle 30 psi ++ no problem. problem is the price tag. whole drivetrain will cost you about 8K, just motor a nasty $4500 or so. Varients like Spec-C, RA are pricy. very very good though. with the proper setup you can make 400 AWHP daily on a stock motor. the heads are where the power is. Also it benefits from interchangability for sensors with usdm wrx ej205.
- subaru dosnt have a problem with open deck motor breaking, the idiots in the US just tune it bad and crack piston ring-lands. even a EJ205 is good for a reasonably reliable 400 chp if tuned very well on a bigger turbine. longevity is a different story.
JDM ej207 (v5/6) almost a gdb 7/8 motor, but with smaller valves than v8 and no AVCS heads. obviously a good motor, but pretty expensive. $2500 or so just for the motor, $3200+ for a sti-RA engine only. $6500-7500 for the front clip. spendy and not good deal in my opion. obviously the sti-RA models will be faster than hell. trick stuff like sodium filled valves. my buddy has one in his 98, its not any faster than my 95 ej20G sti-RA. Benefits? revised phase 2 block design (arguably better but perhaps not that important). ECUtek reflashable. dissadvantages: cost, does not pass emissions obd2, spare parts are EXPENSIVE and hard to find, not that significant performance advantage over ej20K- cams are actually less aggressive.
EJ20K. v3/4. a good deal. clip will cost you 4.5-5.5kK with everything complete , the plane jane WRX is a better deal than the STi. wrx comes with a VF22 turbine, STi has a faster spooling but smaller vf23. pick up the normal WRX and give it an exhaust, then go walk sti's all day... u can run high 11's with a VF22. no joke.
Advantages of ej20K: pistons are light. 375g vs 398g for ej207 gdb, titanium valves, aggressive cams. waste spark much more reliable than ej20g cop, revised metal waterbox, straight entry turbine deign, bigger intercooler (and ej20k+ square big TMIC fitament possibility)
Downsides: spare MAF and ignitor is rather hard to find.
EJ20G. the OG of the crew. 1992-1995, they are all the same. Td04 and Td05 turbines flow more CFM's than any of the other GC8 OEM turbines, older design could use a revamp (aka centre baller bearing conversion like EVO td05). if you want to be able to brag that you have a closed deck, EJ20G is the only closed deck. EJ20g also has the most spare parts support of any of the GC8 drivelines. Swapstar productions stocks all standard replacement parts, all sensors, coilpacks, ignitors, maf's. You will be hard pressed to find replacement spares for all other JDM GC8 drivelines stateside. there are "240ps", "260ps", and "275ps". Same size valves from EJ20g to GDB ver7 early. all EJ20G motor internals are identical. Plane jane WRX and WRX sti and WRX sti-RA will all make the same power on the same ecu. the differance is the ECU and turbine, but theres always power FC's to take care of ecu side and turbine upgrades are easy. easily the best bang for the buck, any WRX EJ20G will rev to 8K all day and do 300 crank on 91 octane. my personal one in bone stock setup did 238 awhp on 91 octane. stock turbine, stock ecu, stock intercooler, stock boost, and an aftermarket exhaust. the Td04 small turbine will spool quite a bit faster, so if you're building an autoX monster, or togue pass king car, you might want to do that instead. TD04 will do 300 CHP as well, there are lots of usdm WRX's as thus. High end power or lower end power, you pick.
any turbine and exhaust from ANY ej motor is compatible. you can fit a twin scroll on a EJ20G, or a TD05 single scroll setup on a GDB EJ207 2005. up pipe, downpipe, header, its all compatible.
ej257 (usdm 2.5L sti). long-block is good to 530 awhp, probably would live all day at 400 chp. i dont like it because it dosnt rev high and isn't constructed to the level of the JDM 2.0L blocks. heads are crappier too. if you want to build your own torque beasty, just get the short-block ($1400 new) and throw some 2.0 l heads on it and make custom frankenstein. works very well. kinda pricey for me
USDM ej205. i wouldn't bother with it, but if you goal is 300 chp and a max usable power rpm of 6500 or so, its easy to find for cheap. wiring is a bizzle, but the parts are plentiful. full motor conversion ranges from $1500 on the dirt to $4K installed. Toys are always extra, so you probably looking at an up pipe and a full turbo back exhaust with a upgraded ECU (accesport,ecutek etc). 300 chp is be easy with stock ecu td04, td04 and IC. its not bad, but JDM is better. the EJ205 is hampered with stupid things like TGV, low compression, and a terrible gearbox.
JDM EJ207 (v7/8/9). the best thing money can buy. but it costs alot of money to buy. power is all in the heads, open deck (technically semi-closed) but it'll handle 30 psi ++ no problem. problem is the price tag. whole drivetrain will cost you about 8K, just motor a nasty $4500 or so. Varients like Spec-C, RA are pricy. very very good though. with the proper setup you can make 400 AWHP daily on a stock motor. the heads are where the power is. Also it benefits from interchangability for sensors with usdm wrx ej205.
- subaru dosnt have a problem with open deck motor breaking, the idiots in the US just tune it bad and crack piston ring-lands. even a EJ205 is good for a reasonably reliable 400 chp if tuned very well on a bigger turbine. longevity is a different story.
JDM ej207 (v5/6) almost a gdb 7/8 motor, but with smaller valves than v8 and no AVCS heads. obviously a good motor, but pretty expensive. $2500 or so just for the motor, $3200+ for a sti-RA engine only. $6500-7500 for the front clip. spendy and not good deal in my opion. obviously the sti-RA models will be faster than hell. trick stuff like sodium filled valves. my buddy has one in his 98, its not any faster than my 95 ej20G sti-RA. Benefits? revised phase 2 block design (arguably better but perhaps not that important). ECUtek reflashable. dissadvantages: cost, does not pass emissions obd2, spare parts are EXPENSIVE and hard to find, not that significant performance advantage over ej20K- cams are actually less aggressive.
EJ20K. v3/4. a good deal. clip will cost you 4.5-5.5kK with everything complete , the plane jane WRX is a better deal than the STi. wrx comes with a VF22 turbine, STi has a faster spooling but smaller vf23. pick up the normal WRX and give it an exhaust, then go walk sti's all day... u can run high 11's with a VF22. no joke.
Advantages of ej20K: pistons are light. 375g vs 398g for ej207 gdb, titanium valves, aggressive cams. waste spark much more reliable than ej20g cop, revised metal waterbox, straight entry turbine deign, bigger intercooler (and ej20k+ square big TMIC fitament possibility)
Downsides: spare MAF and ignitor is rather hard to find.
EJ20G. the OG of the crew. 1992-1995, they are all the same. Td04 and Td05 turbines flow more CFM's than any of the other GC8 OEM turbines, older design could use a revamp (aka centre baller bearing conversion like EVO td05). if you want to be able to brag that you have a closed deck, EJ20G is the only closed deck. EJ20g also has the most spare parts support of any of the GC8 drivelines. Swapstar productions stocks all standard replacement parts, all sensors, coilpacks, ignitors, maf's. You will be hard pressed to find replacement spares for all other JDM GC8 drivelines stateside. there are "240ps", "260ps", and "275ps". Same size valves from EJ20g to GDB ver7 early. all EJ20G motor internals are identical. Plane jane WRX and WRX sti and WRX sti-RA will all make the same power on the same ecu. the differance is the ECU and turbine, but theres always power FC's to take care of ecu side and turbine upgrades are easy. easily the best bang for the buck, any WRX EJ20G will rev to 8K all day and do 300 crank on 91 octane. my personal one in bone stock setup did 238 awhp on 91 octane. stock turbine, stock ecu, stock intercooler, stock boost, and an aftermarket exhaust. the Td04 small turbine will spool quite a bit faster, so if you're building an autoX monster, or togue pass king car, you might want to do that instead. TD04 will do 300 CHP as well, there are lots of usdm WRX's as thus. High end power or lower end power, you pick.
any turbine and exhaust from ANY ej motor is compatible. you can fit a twin scroll on a EJ20G, or a TD05 single scroll setup on a GDB EJ207 2005. up pipe, downpipe, header, its all compatible.
Tuesday, April 10, 2007
wiring up a RHD driveline in a LHD car- easiest way.....
if you break it down, there are several harness bundles on a JDM wrx ej20g;
ECU/bulkhead- fills the entire interior
engine bay fusebox
fan harness - front of car
dash harness (attached to your dash)
body rear harness - goes to Fuel pump, tails, signals.
ECU bulkhead connects directly to engine harness, BUT needs to send signal to dash, and get signal from imputs - clutch pedal, etc
picture 2 identical cars- one is LHD and one is rhd. the ecu's will be on reverse sides, the steering column on reverse sides. now picture what you would need to do to make your NA 2.5rs the same car but just RHd... assuming engine and everything stays the same, and the mechanical parts were already bolted in.....
it would just be re-routing the wiring right?
so lets assume the same thing. all ej20g is in the engine bay, the wiring is all hooked up. you have to have the ecu and the steering stuff switch sides (smart re-routing and extending of some wires). then you need to feed the dash stuff - you'll have to do a bit of splicing there bc EJ20G and 2.5rs are a couple generations apart.
then feed the rear lights and fuel pump etc. JDM wrx is 1 plug with 26 wires, usdm has 3 plugs with about the same number of wires. easy test light will do it-
see my logic? its FAST.
if you break it down, there are several harness bundles on a JDM wrx ej20g;
ECU/bulkhead- fills the entire interior
engine bay fusebox
fan harness - front of car
dash harness (attached to your dash)
body rear harness - goes to Fuel pump, tails, signals.
ECU bulkhead connects directly to engine harness, BUT needs to send signal to dash, and get signal from imputs - clutch pedal, etc
picture 2 identical cars- one is LHD and one is rhd. the ecu's will be on reverse sides, the steering column on reverse sides. now picture what you would need to do to make your NA 2.5rs the same car but just RHd... assuming engine and everything stays the same, and the mechanical parts were already bolted in.....
it would just be re-routing the wiring right?
so lets assume the same thing. all ej20g is in the engine bay, the wiring is all hooked up. you have to have the ecu and the steering stuff switch sides (smart re-routing and extending of some wires). then you need to feed the dash stuff - you'll have to do a bit of splicing there bc EJ20G and 2.5rs are a couple generations apart.
then feed the rear lights and fuel pump etc. JDM wrx is 1 plug with 26 wires, usdm has 3 plugs with about the same number of wires. easy test light will do it-
see my logic? its FAST.
Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)